This is a thing we did extemporaneously the other night.
Five tracks: three through Neve preamps for drums, one on the bass, one built-in M-Audio 2626 preamp on guitar.
On the mix there's a lot, and I mean a lot, of compression.
The guitar is insanely out of tune. The playing is... well... extemporaneous. That means we were making things up as we went along. Sometimes our ability to read one another's minds is hampered by the aluminum foil hat I wear. But that's not the point of this recording. The point of this recording is to us an idea or a notion of what recording might be like over the coming year.
Hi hats are too loud. We need quieter hi hats. I hear things about the Zildjian K Constantinople hi hats.
Boy are they expensive...
Friday, December 21, 2012
Neve Vs M-Audio 2626
I'm surprised at how good the cheap preamps and converters all sound. And it may be that the problem with the cheap preamps and converters is that they will start to sound tiring after a while of listening or that when you start stacking them in a mix they get to be a bit either harsh or muddy. But one at a time, especially when you're not A/B'ing them against very expensive gear, they sound quite nice.
Above is a test of the Neve 1272 mic preamp vs the internal preamp on the M-Audio 2626. It's an unfair comparison and you don't need to do a double-blind study to realize that wow, the Neves sure do sound nice.
I actually through a scientific evaluation out the window and went and EQ'ed the tracks. Individually. Just to make them each sound very nice. The Neve, of course, has the low-mid thump that had to be cut out. But I added a bit more in the 4K range to each of them (although the center frequencies are somewhat different.)
Above is a test of the Neve 1272 mic preamp vs the internal preamp on the M-Audio 2626. It's an unfair comparison and you don't need to do a double-blind study to realize that wow, the Neves sure do sound nice.
I actually through a scientific evaluation out the window and went and EQ'ed the tracks. Individually. Just to make them each sound very nice. The Neve, of course, has the low-mid thump that had to be cut out. But I added a bit more in the 4K range to each of them (although the center frequencies are somewhat different.)
You're Gonna Carry That Weight
But we are going to be adding at least two and probably three more preamps in a 500-series 1U rack. Which means more weight.
Sigh. You know what? I really dig the M-Audio converters on acoustic guitar (at least). I actually, and I realize this is an act of apostasy to say so, like them better than the Apogee preamps. I know, right? The Apogees are more "pristine" certainly but there's a certain low-frequency grungyness that the M-Audio 2626 has that's very musical. Which does discourage me from wanted to get it modified by Black Lion. Well, I guess that makes my life cheaper and easier though.
On the other hand, things that make my life harder and more expensive: I'm liking is 96kHz sampling frequency. It's not that you can hear better high end really. Or I mean I can't. But it has a betterment to the sound I like. There's a betterization. There. That's the scientific term for it.
But at 96kHz we're taking up a lot more resources. This means that if we want to use a laptop to record, we need to use the 2626 going into the Scarlett (because only the Scarlett has USB and nobody bothers to make laptops with Firewire ports anymore). But if we want to use the (Firewire) 2626's A/D converters we have to get digital audio into the Scarlett and we're limited in the way that can work. The ADAT interface on the 2626 and Scarlett only gives us four channels across the optical. We can get two more channels via S/P Dif. Can we record basic tracks entirely by using only six channels of audio?
Probably not. We also have six more analog inputs on the Scarlett but I don't like the sound of the Scarlett as much as the 2626. But you know, the Scarlett's clarity and the M-Audio's gnarlity might make a good combination.
Thursday, December 20, 2012
More Converter Tests
Converter Tests. This is the most exciting album you've ever heard. Okay, not really. This is a test of converters using a Martin D-28 acoustic guitar into an AKG 460 microphone with a CK-1 capsule. I pulled a tiny bit of 250Hz from all tracks in the 48 kHz tests. Which is kind of dumb of me as I should have treated all the tracks equally but I didn't do that.
Other scientific problems with this test: The room is noisy. Each take is a different performance. The converters are not all set to exactly the same level.
I tested four A/D converters
- M-Audio 2626
- Apogee Mini-Me
- Focusrite Scarlett
- MOTU Ultralite (1st generation)
I tested both 48K and 96K clocks. The file naming, although not as consistent as it should have been, goes like this:
Clock speed (48 kHz or 96 kHz)
Then I tell you whether I used a Neve 1272 preamp or the built-in preamp of the converter.
Then I tell you what the converter was.
Optionally (and only with the MOTU converter) I indicate if the internal clock or the Apogee's clock was used.
If you want to listen without being influenced by what is what then go ahead and play the album. It's only a few minutes long.
Now here is the key (note that number 9 is "Neve (preamp) to Apogee (converter)".)
I managed to forget to test the preamps on the 2626 on their own. Oops. That would have been nice to hear.
My preliminary conclusion is that I kind of like the M-Audio 2626's converters. I hear that the Apogee is "higher end" but there's something nice about the grit (there's that word again) of the 2626.
The Frontier of Reason
Greg and Lily stopped by last night for a little rehearsal. Basically it was a "Drew only knows two chords, it's time to teach him more chords" rehearsal.
Now my job is to figure out how I'm going to record the three (Editor's note: why three?) records I want to make this year.
The Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 is a neat little interface. Presumably it will work with an iPad, which amuses me greatly.
The inputs on it are hot, boy. According to their website:
Whereas the M-Audio 2626 has what I would consider to be more reasonable levels:
That's almost a 10dB difference. The answer, of course, is to turn down any mic preamps feeding the Scarlett by about 10dB. (Ironically, the Scarlett's mic preamps are pretty quiet, unless the XLR's work at some lower level by default and I haven't figured out how to turn them up yet.)
Of course, what we can do is drive the Focusrite Scarlett with the M-Audio 2626. That is, if we were inclined to do such things. We can feed the Scarlett from the 2626 via ADAT lightpipe. We probably won't be doing that unless we have to record some crazy number of tracks for some reason.
The big thing with the Scarlett is that it is USB and not Firewire. That means that we can use a laptop with it rather than bringing a hundred pounds of computer around with us. (Ask any of my bandmates how much they enjoy doing that when you have the chance.)
Did I mention that the Scarlett's interface is vastly better than the 2626? And I don't even use the 2626 drivers as a rule nowadays, having found that the Samplitude "low-latency" drivers work better with it.
I've done tests. Hoo boy have I done tests. And you shall be subjected to my tests. Oh yes you will.
Now my job is to figure out how I'm going to record the three (Editor's note: why three?) records I want to make this year.
The Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 is a neat little interface. Presumably it will work with an iPad, which amuses me greatly.
The inputs on it are hot, boy. According to their website:
- Input Level: +10dBu for 0dBFS (balanced inputs)
- Input Impedance: >10kΩ
Whereas the M-Audio 2626 has what I would consider to be more reasonable levels:
- Maximum Input level +19.6dBu, typical
- Input Impedance >20k Ohms, balanced
That's almost a 10dB difference. The answer, of course, is to turn down any mic preamps feeding the Scarlett by about 10dB. (Ironically, the Scarlett's mic preamps are pretty quiet, unless the XLR's work at some lower level by default and I haven't figured out how to turn them up yet.)
Of course, what we can do is drive the Focusrite Scarlett with the M-Audio 2626. That is, if we were inclined to do such things. We can feed the Scarlett from the 2626 via ADAT lightpipe. We probably won't be doing that unless we have to record some crazy number of tracks for some reason.
The big thing with the Scarlett is that it is USB and not Firewire. That means that we can use a laptop with it rather than bringing a hundred pounds of computer around with us. (Ask any of my bandmates how much they enjoy doing that when you have the chance.)
Did I mention that the Scarlett's interface is vastly better than the 2626? And I don't even use the 2626 drivers as a rule nowadays, having found that the Samplitude "low-latency" drivers work better with it.
I've done tests. Hoo boy have I done tests. And you shall be subjected to my tests. Oh yes you will.
Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Falling Angels
Which brings me to last night's Tyrannosaurus Mouse rehearsal. Again we went to Looming Productions as a 3-piece. My rack, which is hardly portable, has 4 Neve 1272 preamps and the M-Audio 2626 A/D converter and preamp.
Here's a mix of Fiery the Angels Fell. (You can only see it in the web version of this post.)
I put the bass into the 1st Neve preamp. Ethan decided that some beat-up Samson microphone from the PA was the best choice. That is, it was a better choice than the even more beat-up no-name "58-esque" mic they had there. That actually sounded pretty good. It's a very aggressive bass sound but more than appropriate with Ethan's 5-string fretless. (UPDATE: Ethan says that he actually swapped out a Sampson for an actual 58, albeit more beat up.)
The drums had a center microphone of an AKG C12A and a "Y" configuration of a pair of Oktava 012 mics. I wanted the 012's because of their off-axis smoothness (over the AKG 460's). I set them relatively low rather than above the kit. The three drum mics (left, right, and center) all went through Neve preamps.
My big problem is that hi-hats are too loud. I mean, that's a big problem in my life.
I thought that by putting the mics "low" and facing the front of the kit I'd get a somewhat more kick and tom sort of sound.
Basically I think that worked. Still need to find a way to quiet the hi-hats. They're kind of like sopranos in a chorus in that way you want to shush them. Right?
Should there be more spread in the stereo-ness of the drums? I dunno. I feel a bit of longing of isolating the drums a bit more. The AKG center, being a tube mic, is a bit "fuzzy" sounding. I'm not entirely sure of how much I dig it but it certainly gives heft and center to the kick drum.
At some point I'm going to go on at length about the "three microphone" setup for a drum kit where one of those mics is not the kick drum. Because I'm not that sure I'm into a kick drum mic so much as just a "front of the kit" mic.
The guitar, which is my SG going into a VOX amp, was barely paid attention to by me. It's recorded with a '57 draped over the cabinet and the preamp is the 2626 (input number 5).
We recorded at 96kHz. I seriously don't know if that realistically makes much difference to us. Is it really better than 48K? Who knows. I'll be doing some experiments at some point.
Gritty Swagger
I don't think I have any kind of gritty swagger. Not like Howl from Beware of Darkness.
The most recent Taxi listings are all about the gritty swagger. I mean, that's the language they actually use to describe the songs.
I get the feeling that editors on TV shows put in songs they really like but can't afford. And then music supervisors are stuck with trying desperately to find affordable songs which match what the editor originally had in there before they get onto the mix stage. I mean, that's my feeling.
It's funny too that Taxi just goes ahead and puts YouTube URL's in their listings -- of videos of music similar to the style that they're looking for.
The latter half of December has no Taxi listings appropriate for Tyrannosaurus Mouse, Pleasure for the Empire, or Prague Spring.
Additional coolness: dudes making and modifying microphones. Michael Joly mods Oktava and other mics.
Dude on Reddit made his own guitar magazine. Danny's Guitar Channel.
The most recent Taxi listings are all about the gritty swagger. I mean, that's the language they actually use to describe the songs.
I get the feeling that editors on TV shows put in songs they really like but can't afford. And then music supervisors are stuck with trying desperately to find affordable songs which match what the editor originally had in there before they get onto the mix stage. I mean, that's my feeling.
It's funny too that Taxi just goes ahead and puts YouTube URL's in their listings -- of videos of music similar to the style that they're looking for.
The latter half of December has no Taxi listings appropriate for Tyrannosaurus Mouse, Pleasure for the Empire, or Prague Spring.
![]() |
| I can haz gritty swaggers? |
Additional coolness: dudes making and modifying microphones. Michael Joly mods Oktava and other mics.
Dude on Reddit made his own guitar magazine. Danny's Guitar Channel.
Things That Are Cool
Among things that are cool is an iPad app called Auria which allows for recording multitrack. You need a USB interface for it. Something like a Scarlett if you want to do at least 8 tracks. If you've got an iPad, an interface (and the camera connection kit for the iPad which is like $35 from Apple or vastly less from elsewhere) then it's a pretty cool and lightweight way to do recordings.
What else is cool? Mother Leopard is cool. Jeremy Crowson turned me on to them.
What else is cool? Mother Leopard is cool. Jeremy Crowson turned me on to them.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012
Engineering only a 7?
Here's the first feedback we've gotten for anything submitted to Taxi. Hmm... I must have misunderstood what "song" means in this case.
But the recording is "Not great"? I'll have to differ with you there. I think it sounds pretty cool. It's not like it could be been produced with any, say, more expensive gear or mixed with a better mixing console. Beats me what they're looking for there -- probably just more compression.
But the recording is "Not great"? I'll have to differ with you there. I think it sounds pretty cool. It's not like it could be been produced with any, say, more expensive gear or mixed with a better mixing console. Beats me what they're looking for there -- probably just more compression.
Monday, December 17, 2012
Live Belle Saff
Are there any great drum sounds from live records? Like knock-your-socks off drum sounds?
Belle Adair is pretty groovy.
Here's a mastering house: Carl Saff.
Belle Adair is pretty groovy.
Here's a mastering house: Carl Saff.
Internet Notebook Sounds and Music
Remember how these blogs are essentially my Internet notebook? No? Well you're about to be reminded.
The M-Audio 2626. The drivers which come with it are... persnickity. I lose ASIO buffers all day long. ASIO4ALL drivers are better. But so far the best drivers for me are the Samplitude low-latency drivers built into Samplitude. So you know what? Them's what I'm going with.
Otherwise the 2626 sounds pretty good. Yeah, I could get an upgrade by getting it modified for $575 plus shipping both ways. But I could get a pair of Lindell mic preamps for that price too. And the preamps will make a bigger difference to the sound.
Another issue which comes up is transportation. I'll probably end up with a Gator 4U bag. That's 2U for the two sets of Neve preamps and 1U for a 500 strip and 1U for the interface.
I wish there were a way to get Firewire into an iPad. Or I wish I had another Mini. Or something.
I'd also like a way of miking drums in a way that makes me happy. I'd like a very simple microphone setup that gives me both the presence and the bombasity I like.
I... you know... I don't like kick drum microphones. I mean. Yeah. There are some great kick drum sounds out there in the wild. But they frequently sound to me like they're not from the same drum kit when they're miked.
One trick seems to be getting the damn cymbals to shut up. Drums you hit hard. Those metal things on top? Not so much.
The drum sound on Sunshine of Your Love is pretty good. It's a bit cardboard for my taste. But he's such a good drummer with such great control of the dynamics of the kit that it sounds pretty good.
Fleetwood Mac's The Chain has a great, dry, '70's drum sound. Snares released from the snare drum before the chorus. The drum itself has a decent amount of resonance even though the acoustical space is so dead. And, again, the cymbals are under control. Playing drums is really hard.
I keep coming back to ABACAB. That, and the fact that my mother, strangely, liked the rhythm in the song "Mama".
The gold standard is always Kashmir. I'll take another listen. A Whole Lotta Love has an impressive drum sound.
The M-Audio 2626. The drivers which come with it are... persnickity. I lose ASIO buffers all day long. ASIO4ALL drivers are better. But so far the best drivers for me are the Samplitude low-latency drivers built into Samplitude. So you know what? Them's what I'm going with.
Otherwise the 2626 sounds pretty good. Yeah, I could get an upgrade by getting it modified for $575 plus shipping both ways. But I could get a pair of Lindell mic preamps for that price too. And the preamps will make a bigger difference to the sound.
Another issue which comes up is transportation. I'll probably end up with a Gator 4U bag. That's 2U for the two sets of Neve preamps and 1U for a 500 strip and 1U for the interface.
I wish there were a way to get Firewire into an iPad. Or I wish I had another Mini. Or something.
I'd also like a way of miking drums in a way that makes me happy. I'd like a very simple microphone setup that gives me both the presence and the bombasity I like.
I... you know... I don't like kick drum microphones. I mean. Yeah. There are some great kick drum sounds out there in the wild. But they frequently sound to me like they're not from the same drum kit when they're miked.
One trick seems to be getting the damn cymbals to shut up. Drums you hit hard. Those metal things on top? Not so much.
The drum sound on Sunshine of Your Love is pretty good. It's a bit cardboard for my taste. But he's such a good drummer with such great control of the dynamics of the kit that it sounds pretty good.
Fleetwood Mac's The Chain has a great, dry, '70's drum sound. Snares released from the snare drum before the chorus. The drum itself has a decent amount of resonance even though the acoustical space is so dead. And, again, the cymbals are under control. Playing drums is really hard.
I keep coming back to ABACAB. That, and the fact that my mother, strangely, liked the rhythm in the song "Mama".
The gold standard is always Kashmir. I'll take another listen. A Whole Lotta Love has an impressive drum sound.
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